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via http://jarandhel.tumblr.com/post/22331353315:
a-handful:
I have a major issue with the idea that you’d liken being otherkin to refusing to accept scientific/historic FACTS. They aren’t the same thing.
I didn’t liken being otherkin to refusing to accept scientific/historic facts. I am otherkin. I likened a subgroup of otherkin that want to post their ideas publicly but don’t want to hear criticism of their ideas to other groups that want to post their ideas publicly but don’t want to hear criticism of their ideas.
Queer people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when people tell them that everyone is straight and their sexuality is wrong/a phase. Trans people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when people tell them that their gender is invalid and they don’t deserve to walk down the street without being harassed. Neurodivergent people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when they’re told that they need to be locked up to “protect people from them”.
Would you say that they’re still obligated to accept being “made uncomfortable” despite the fact that queer and trans and neurodivergent people are the ones who are right and have medical/scientific/historic fact behind them- while it’s the bigots who don’t?
I’d say that people who are queer (as I am), trans or neurodivergent need to expect it when they post to public places and any responses may include viewpoints from bigots. It’s not about fairness, about who’s right, or anything else. It’s just a fact, it will happen, and they do need to accept that in order to be mature, functioning individuals in a pluralistic society. Similarly, the bigots need to expect that when they post to public places the responses may include viewpoints from those who are queer, trans, neurodivergent, of different race or gender or religious beliefs, etc etc. That’s the nature of posting to a public place. If you don’t like it, don’t post to a public forum. It’s that simple. There is no right to not be offended.
Even after decades of knowing and being aware of being queer and trans and neurodivergent, decades of living with that reality and working out who you are and getting past the questioning and just wanting to LIVE YOUR GODDAMN LIFE?
Yep, even after. Hell, we’ve had more than 100 years for people to get used to living with other races as equals, and we still have those who will promote racial bigotry in public forums. And we don’t have a right to shut them down, any more than they have a right to shut the rest of us down. What we do have is a right to challenge their free speech with free speech of our own. To argue and debate with them. That’s it. It’s not until they move from speech to action, such as denying someone housing or employment or physically assaulting someone, that we have the right to intervene. The rare exception to this is in cases of incitement to violence.
It’s not identical to *kin, I’m not saying it is. But the way you phrased it was fucked up and a fallacy. You’re presenting otherkin as the reality-deniers, you’re likening otherkin to bigots who reject reality to oppress people. And otherkin CAN do this, certainly, but their species is not hte reason and not all otherkin do this.
I’ve been a member of the otherkin community for 13 years. I’ve attended major otherkin gatherings from 1999 through 2008 and am running one of my own this summer in Harrisburg, PA. I run http://dreamhart.org and http://anotherwiki.dreamhart.org and am the moderator of five otherkin mailing lists: angelkin, candle lights, spaceelves, vor’jenhunting, and wanderingpaths. I think you’re reacting to a false perception of me and my feelings about otherkin, rather than to what I actually said.
a-handful:
I have a major issue with the idea that you’d liken being otherkin to refusing to accept scientific/historic FACTS. They aren’t the same thing.
I didn’t liken being otherkin to refusing to accept scientific/historic facts. I am otherkin. I likened a subgroup of otherkin that want to post their ideas publicly but don’t want to hear criticism of their ideas to other groups that want to post their ideas publicly but don’t want to hear criticism of their ideas.
Queer people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when people tell them that everyone is straight and their sexuality is wrong/a phase. Trans people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when people tell them that their gender is invalid and they don’t deserve to walk down the street without being harassed. Neurodivergent people are made ‘uncomfortable’ when they’re told that they need to be locked up to “protect people from them”.
Would you say that they’re still obligated to accept being “made uncomfortable” despite the fact that queer and trans and neurodivergent people are the ones who are right and have medical/scientific/historic fact behind them- while it’s the bigots who don’t?
I’d say that people who are queer (as I am), trans or neurodivergent need to expect it when they post to public places and any responses may include viewpoints from bigots. It’s not about fairness, about who’s right, or anything else. It’s just a fact, it will happen, and they do need to accept that in order to be mature, functioning individuals in a pluralistic society. Similarly, the bigots need to expect that when they post to public places the responses may include viewpoints from those who are queer, trans, neurodivergent, of different race or gender or religious beliefs, etc etc. That’s the nature of posting to a public place. If you don’t like it, don’t post to a public forum. It’s that simple. There is no right to not be offended.
Even after decades of knowing and being aware of being queer and trans and neurodivergent, decades of living with that reality and working out who you are and getting past the questioning and just wanting to LIVE YOUR GODDAMN LIFE?
Yep, even after. Hell, we’ve had more than 100 years for people to get used to living with other races as equals, and we still have those who will promote racial bigotry in public forums. And we don’t have a right to shut them down, any more than they have a right to shut the rest of us down. What we do have is a right to challenge their free speech with free speech of our own. To argue and debate with them. That’s it. It’s not until they move from speech to action, such as denying someone housing or employment or physically assaulting someone, that we have the right to intervene. The rare exception to this is in cases of incitement to violence.
It’s not identical to *kin, I’m not saying it is. But the way you phrased it was fucked up and a fallacy. You’re presenting otherkin as the reality-deniers, you’re likening otherkin to bigots who reject reality to oppress people. And otherkin CAN do this, certainly, but their species is not hte reason and not all otherkin do this.
I’ve been a member of the otherkin community for 13 years. I’ve attended major otherkin gatherings from 1999 through 2008 and am running one of my own this summer in Harrisburg, PA. I run http://dreamhart.org and http://anotherwiki.dreamhart.org and am the moderator of five otherkin mailing lists: angelkin, candle lights, spaceelves, vor’jenhunting, and wanderingpaths. I think you’re reacting to a false perception of me and my feelings about otherkin, rather than to what I actually said.