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I'm posting the Rough Draft of the Wanderingpaths list rules as a means of exploring the idea of really regulating our lists a bit more than we currently have without becoming oppressive. Here's what I've come up with for my own list, after researching what rules have been used in other otherkin, vampire, were, and pagan forums.
-----------------Begin Rough Draft--------------------
Wanderingpaths is a general otherkin discussion list intended to
discuss everything related to the subject of otherkin, from basic
newbie and awakening information through advanced topics such as the
details and adaptations of unusual otherkin magical practices. This
document is an introduction to the list and it's rules.
Mailing List Rules:
Members may be either placed on moderated status or banned for disregarding these rules, the exact penalty to be determined by the moderator based on which rule is broken, the severity of it, and the circumstances in which it was broken.
1. Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this list. Wanderingpaths is a list for discussion and debate. Personal issues being aired publicly on this forum would be disruptive, and for that reason should be left offlist.
2. Posts should keep their content reasonably relevant to the subject of otherkin. Since there are a vast range of topics related to that subject, this should not be very hard to do. Exceptions may be made if a conversation leads off on a tangent that the membership of the list is interested in exploring, as long as it does not disrupt or detract from more on-topic conversations.
3. If, for any reason, you wish to bring a discussion from another
list to this one, or crosspost something between another list and this one, please contact me privately first to discuss it.
4. Members may lurk, however if you decide to lurk when you first join the list, without making any introductory posts, please send me a private email letting me know this so that I know you are a real person and not a morph account of someone avoiding moderation.
5. Do not post or attach copyrighted material, including text copied
from web sites, without including a copy of the specific and express
permission granted by the copyright holder to post the material
publicly, *OR* a valid reason why your posting of the material
constitutes "fair use". This does not apply to linking to the
material without posting it directly, nor to material in the public
domain.
6. Do not behave in a manner which the moderator or other reasonable
members of this list will consider disruptive, offensive, or
threatening. (A non-exhaustive list of behaviors that would be covered by this rule is to be found at the end of this document, and will be linked to from a note following this rule in the html version.)
7. Moderating should be left to the moderator, who will personally
issue formal Mod Notes when necessary. Please feel free, however, to
contact me and bring any violations of the rules to my attention if
you think it may not have been noticed.
8. On rules issues on this list, the decisions of the moderator are
final.
Mailing List Guidelines:
This section is meant to introduce you to the atmosphere of the
wanderingpaths mailing list, and the way the list operates. It is not a list of rules, as such, but it is recommended reading for all
members of this list and anyone planning to join.
Debate Guideline: Wanderingpaths is a list focused more on open
debate and discussion of ideas than many Otherkin forums. As such,
disagreement is expected to occur quite regularly, and those who are
not comfortable with having their beliefs challenged in any way will
likely not be as comfortable on this forum as they might be on other
lists. Likewise, those who are not willing to offer support for
odd-sounding things they claim to be fact may also not be comfortable here. While this list supports the right of others to hold the beliefs and opinions of their choice, this does not mean that anyone else must automatically agree them. It is not intolerant to argue that factual beliefs are incorrect, or ask someone for the sources of their information, or even to state that you believe they are wrong (and reasons why). It is intolerant, however, to try to force them to change their opinions by repeatedly badgering them about those opinions, or to bash them for having the beliefs rather than simply challenging the logic of the beliefs themselves. This applies even to less popular belief systems such as Christianity: please challenge the logic of the beliefs, don't bash those who hold them simply for holding them, and don't bash entire groups for the actions of some individuals.
Specialized Topics Guideline: Even those topics which already have more specific lists dedicated to them are welcome here, as discussing them in a general setting might bring more insights than discussing them somewhere with a narrower focus. Also, sending all in-depth subjects to the lists that have been made specifically for them would severely cut into what there would be left to talk about that could be considered "general".
Personal Information Guideline: Please do not give out private
(offline) contact information for yourself through the list. If you
want another member to have that information about you, it is best to send it to that specific person through private email. Sending it the the list would make it available to everyone currently on the list, as well as anyone who joins the list at a later date and reads through the archives. For obvious reasons, this is a safety issue.
Annoying Behaviors:
This is a non-exhaustive list of disruptive, offensive, or threatening behaviors mentioned in rule #6.
1. Spamming the moderator or other members of this list.
2. Using a morph account to access this list for the purpose of
avoiding moderation.
3. Threatening the mailing list, it's members, or the moderation.
4. Uninvited lectures on off-topic subjects.
5. Messages in all capital letters, in "hacker language" (see google's translation options if you don't know what I mean), or making excessive use of "cute" or otherwise nonstandard grammar and spelling such as "Whatt kind ov kin r u?"
6. Using gratuitous offensive language, especially blanket slurs against other groups.
7. Posts including fighting words (otherwise known as flamebait).
This includes, but is not limited to, boasting about how you can kick the ass of other members of the list either astrally or physically.
8. Making frequent posts in which the previous message is quoted in
it's entirety needlessly, thus wasting the bandwidth of other members (some of whom pay by the minute for their internet connection.)
9. Posting ads to other sites using the address of other members on
this board or the moderator.
------------------End Rough Draft---------------------
-----------------Begin Rough Draft--------------------
Wanderingpaths is a general otherkin discussion list intended to
discuss everything related to the subject of otherkin, from basic
newbie and awakening information through advanced topics such as the
details and adaptations of unusual otherkin magical practices. This
document is an introduction to the list and it's rules.
Mailing List Rules:
Members may be either placed on moderated status or banned for disregarding these rules, the exact penalty to be determined by the moderator based on which rule is broken, the severity of it, and the circumstances in which it was broken.
1. Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this list. Wanderingpaths is a list for discussion and debate. Personal issues being aired publicly on this forum would be disruptive, and for that reason should be left offlist.
2. Posts should keep their content reasonably relevant to the subject of otherkin. Since there are a vast range of topics related to that subject, this should not be very hard to do. Exceptions may be made if a conversation leads off on a tangent that the membership of the list is interested in exploring, as long as it does not disrupt or detract from more on-topic conversations.
3. If, for any reason, you wish to bring a discussion from another
list to this one, or crosspost something between another list and this one, please contact me privately first to discuss it.
4. Members may lurk, however if you decide to lurk when you first join the list, without making any introductory posts, please send me a private email letting me know this so that I know you are a real person and not a morph account of someone avoiding moderation.
5. Do not post or attach copyrighted material, including text copied
from web sites, without including a copy of the specific and express
permission granted by the copyright holder to post the material
publicly, *OR* a valid reason why your posting of the material
constitutes "fair use". This does not apply to linking to the
material without posting it directly, nor to material in the public
domain.
6. Do not behave in a manner which the moderator or other reasonable
members of this list will consider disruptive, offensive, or
threatening. (A non-exhaustive list of behaviors that would be covered by this rule is to be found at the end of this document, and will be linked to from a note following this rule in the html version.)
7. Moderating should be left to the moderator, who will personally
issue formal Mod Notes when necessary. Please feel free, however, to
contact me and bring any violations of the rules to my attention if
you think it may not have been noticed.
8. On rules issues on this list, the decisions of the moderator are
final.
Mailing List Guidelines:
This section is meant to introduce you to the atmosphere of the
wanderingpaths mailing list, and the way the list operates. It is not a list of rules, as such, but it is recommended reading for all
members of this list and anyone planning to join.
Debate Guideline: Wanderingpaths is a list focused more on open
debate and discussion of ideas than many Otherkin forums. As such,
disagreement is expected to occur quite regularly, and those who are
not comfortable with having their beliefs challenged in any way will
likely not be as comfortable on this forum as they might be on other
lists. Likewise, those who are not willing to offer support for
odd-sounding things they claim to be fact may also not be comfortable here. While this list supports the right of others to hold the beliefs and opinions of their choice, this does not mean that anyone else must automatically agree them. It is not intolerant to argue that factual beliefs are incorrect, or ask someone for the sources of their information, or even to state that you believe they are wrong (and reasons why). It is intolerant, however, to try to force them to change their opinions by repeatedly badgering them about those opinions, or to bash them for having the beliefs rather than simply challenging the logic of the beliefs themselves. This applies even to less popular belief systems such as Christianity: please challenge the logic of the beliefs, don't bash those who hold them simply for holding them, and don't bash entire groups for the actions of some individuals.
Specialized Topics Guideline: Even those topics which already have more specific lists dedicated to them are welcome here, as discussing them in a general setting might bring more insights than discussing them somewhere with a narrower focus. Also, sending all in-depth subjects to the lists that have been made specifically for them would severely cut into what there would be left to talk about that could be considered "general".
Personal Information Guideline: Please do not give out private
(offline) contact information for yourself through the list. If you
want another member to have that information about you, it is best to send it to that specific person through private email. Sending it the the list would make it available to everyone currently on the list, as well as anyone who joins the list at a later date and reads through the archives. For obvious reasons, this is a safety issue.
Annoying Behaviors:
This is a non-exhaustive list of disruptive, offensive, or threatening behaviors mentioned in rule #6.
1. Spamming the moderator or other members of this list.
2. Using a morph account to access this list for the purpose of
avoiding moderation.
3. Threatening the mailing list, it's members, or the moderation.
4. Uninvited lectures on off-topic subjects.
5. Messages in all capital letters, in "hacker language" (see google's translation options if you don't know what I mean), or making excessive use of "cute" or otherwise nonstandard grammar and spelling such as "Whatt kind ov kin r u?"
6. Using gratuitous offensive language, especially blanket slurs against other groups.
7. Posts including fighting words (otherwise known as flamebait).
This includes, but is not limited to, boasting about how you can kick the ass of other members of the list either astrally or physically.
8. Making frequent posts in which the previous message is quoted in
it's entirety needlessly, thus wasting the bandwidth of other members (some of whom pay by the minute for their internet connection.)
9. Posting ads to other sites using the address of other members on
this board or the moderator.
------------------End Rough Draft---------------------
no subject
===I will have to read it more...but it is a very good begining.
no subject
Why? I'm sure there's a good reason, but I just don't understand what that is.
8. On rules issues on this list, the decisions of the moderator are final.
I understand this, and I know why it's there, but I've seen it make things go badly on other lists. the last time I saw this happen, the moderator made a violently unpopular decision based solidly on the rules. It caused a major revision of the rules on that list, but not before the list, and the group it was supporting, almost dissolved.
I know it will mean the moderator's decisions get questioned, but that could happen anyway. I think the spirit of this and the peace of the list could be maintained by outlining some sort of off-list appeals process where only the moderator could update the list as to the progress of the appeal and anyone else discussing the appeal would automatically be moderated. This is, of course, just my opinion.
9. Posting ads to other sites using the address of other members on
this board or the moderator.
I've probably never encountered this and that's why I don't understand it, but I have no idea what you're talking about here. 'No posting ads' or 'no using others addresses' I can get, but the way they're combined here makes me think it's something else being referred to.
---
On the subject of 'minors'... I admire your decision to handle this carefully. No matter what anyone's personal feelings on the issue are, it's a tricky subject. You could just cut out some topics of conversation, including sex and drug related topics, but that cuts into the stated purpose of the list to discuss general related issues because those things could easily be related, and someone could easily need help in one of those areas, especially someone with less 'life experience.'
Often, it seems, those who could best benefit from open, honest discussion on certain topics are those who are prohibited by laws from being a part of those conversations. It's not likely that anyone under 18 joining the list is going to be comfortable with the idea of getting parental permission to participate.
Surely there are other lists, associated with officially recognized groups, that deal with the subjects of drugs, sex, et al who have found tried and true methods of handling this that you/we could examine. I just find it odd that there isn't already a 'standard' for this sort of thing.
no subject
As for an appeals process... I don't think a formal appeals process would be really feasible. I mean, I would be the only person to appeal to anyway, and I can't really see any sort of break of the existing rules that I would reconsider penalizing someone for. Especially since I will normally publically warn first about unacceptable behavior, and then moderate/ban as appropriate if it continues. (Save for more extreme circumstances such as criminal activity or threats being made to other members.)
You're right, the annoying behavior #9 refers to posting ads ON other sites using the addresses of the moderation or membership of the list. Like bestmall classified sites. This is not a hypothetical situation, it is something that is currently taking place in the community. The person doing it is posting the ads containing people's addresses to classified ad sites online to stimulate spammers to target those people. Quite a few otherkin lists, moderators, and comods have been targetted by these attacks, including myself.
As for minors... unfortunately, there is a standard and it's usually to exclude the minors from the forums, but personally I don't really care for that solution. More on that in another reply, it won't fit here.
no subject
Most of the lists I've been on have had rules with a lot of thought into them. The three (yes, only three) times that the 'moderator's word is final' rule has caused things to blow up, it hasn't helped that the rules were clear or that people had been warned. People disagreed with the decision and wanted to talk about it, and the moderators reacted based on that rule. Well, I think you get the picture, and I sincerely hope you never have to deal with it.
I had read your post about minors on list, and it had been on my mind while posting that. What I was referring to wasn't "How does everybody else handle it," but "How do those groups designed specifically for kids to talk about those topics handle it." Surely this would qualify as a place for people of all ages to seek advice, and there are groups out there where kids are encouraged to talk about their problems of any nature... I'll look into it and see what I can find.
no subject
On the one hand, we could not allow
minors to join; on the other hand we could let them join and as a
result possibly have to restrict conversations concerning some more
mature subjects (and not just ones having to do with sexuality, it'd
involve a lot more than that.) Also, with the current laws that
restrict basic freedoms from applying to minors, I'm not sure if we
can even legally talk about the idea of otherkin with them without
parental consent, even if we steer clear of mature subjects.
So, it looks like the most sensible thing to do would be to restrict
the access of minors to this list, right? There are a few problems
with that option too, as I see it. First, we have no real way of
knowing who is a minor and who is not. Minors can quite easily lie
about their age, and frankly the ones who wouldn't lie about it and
would just admit their age and go away are probably the ones we'd be
happier to have here than those who would conceal it to gain access.
We might be able to tell by their behavior and their writing habits,
but really that's a guessing game and adults can be mistakenly accused
of being minors while some minors might be thought are far older than
they really are.
Also, I'm really not convinced that minors don't belong on lists like
this. I met my boyfriend on a kin IRC channel when I was 18. He's a
year and a half younger than me, and it was between our birthdays,
maybe a month before his 17th birthday, so he was 16 in the eyes of
the law at that time. (Currently I'm 21, almost 22, and he's 20.) My
relationship with him is probably the best relationship I've had in my
entire life, and I really can't say in good conscience that he should
not have been on those forums at that time. If he hadn't been, I
might never have met him.
Finally, from my own experience with Internet forums and age issues:
Two *weeks* before my 18th birthday I was turned away from a pagan
forum and told that I was not really serious about paganism and was
"only using magic as a substitute for drugs", simply because I
mentioned my age to the forum owner. (Before that point we'd been
having a rather interesting discussion, except briefly when I
mentioned that things written on the site were rather similar to
things in the book of an author that the site-owner had said was no
good as a source of information.) I don't want that sort of atmosphere
to be present on this list, where teens are ostracized and treated as
if they have no value, or worse, until the one particular day of the
year when they happen to magically become an adult in the eyes of the
law. But so far I'm really not seeing a middle ground.
Does anyone have any opinions on this whole issue? Particularly any
suggestions for alternatives to these two options? I'd really love to
hear them if you do.